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Just what are bowlers actually expecting when...
  #1  
Old 06-01-2017, 11:46 PM
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Just what are bowlers actually expecting when...

they go to bowl on sports/challenge oil patterns the first time?

Over on another forum a bowler went to the nationals, he asked every question he could and for every piece of advice he could get. He ran around and tried to play every different pattern he could, worried about what balls to take, surfaces, layouts etc.

He's averaging 200+ on the THS and after seeing the scores at the nationals figures even if he has a bad series he still going to be up in the top.

After he gets back and he's kind disgusted he says he had to hit the exact same spot each time and the exact same line each time.

and quote "that is just too much to deal with."

So being accurate and consistent is too much to deal with?
-----
A bowler on the summer sports challenge league I'm on, where they change the pattern every week and we're only on the 4th week.

He say's the other night after a low series "I thought this was suppose to make you a better bowler" and he didn't see where it was doing him any good.

I just wondered when I heard it, just how did he expect it to make him better? Did he think "Oh yes, I know it's supposed to be hard. But I'll pick up the adjustments after just a game or two and take it off the sheet."

I figure most don't really realize the differences between the house shot and a sport type shot and how it affects your game.

And a lot over estimate their ability to adjust and play the tougher patterns.

plus there the players who keep doing the same thing week after week and expecting a different result.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:19 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

You're right, what do they expect. I hear it all the time.

Just like any other sport, the best athletes always make it look easy. That takes a huge amount of time, dedication, and discipline.

It's way more than just practicing on challenging shots. It's keeping the emotions in check under the big lights. That takes experience.

And, as a fellow who just got back from the Nationals said: "You can't go out there with just anybody, you need a TEAM". Well said.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:12 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

When a bowlers margin for error is reduced, their view of their own ability is also reduced. Some except the challenge, while other can't handle the truth.

Last edited by Gazoo; 06-02-2017 at 04:06 PM.

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
  #4  
Old 06-02-2017, 12:12 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

And here's the contrast: when I bowl on the THS, I absolutely relax about technique and targeting and throw it all over the place and still score. And like most people, I get all blown up about how good I am until I get back to real bowling, where technique and knowledge are so critical.

The THS not only allows for bad habits to creep in, I think it actually encourages them. That's a huge wakeup call for anybody who's never read a lane graph.

Target accuracy on the THS? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
  #5  
Old 06-02-2017, 03:29 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

There's a reason why THE ENTIRE FIELD has trouble averaging 170 in the USBC Open year after year. Good shots are required to score well at the Open, so it therefore indicates that a lot of bowlers aren't making good shots. For many of them, it's a true REALITY CHECK.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-03-2017, 12:48 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

Look at some of the scores PBA players are shooting at the Open. One national title winner shot around 460 in doubles. They use a ratio lower then anything on the PBA tour or generally listed/used under all of the endless sport patterns available.

Every year they also say how the shot is fair and made to give ALL bowlers multiple options of attack if making good shots. It is a joke.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:10 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

No matter what level a bowler is, it's pretty easy to overthink the game. All of the bowlers (from our shop) have come back with the same perception, if they let the ball go, they were close to striking or struck. As soon as they touched the ball, it went everywhere. For sure, none of them have a firm, solid spare game and they admitted they missed a lot of "easy" spares.

The way the Nationals is set up, to win this thing is not luck. You'll need a very, very, good team of players with the skill and the mental capacity to figure it out. How many really good teams are there in today's game? Few and far between.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomaHawk View Post
No matter what level a bowler is, it's pretty easy to overthink the game. All of the bowlers (from our shop) have come back with the same perception, if they let the ball go, they were close to striking or struck. As soon as they touched the ball, it went everywhere. For sure, none of them have a firm, solid spare game and they admitted they missed a lot of "easy" spares.
Me, me, me, me, and me. My coach put me on a ridiculously difficult shot in his center - he is well known and represents a manufacturer - and the one thing we worked on was letting the ball do the work. When I started out hitting the thing, it squirted, it died, I pulled shots, I tossed them in the gutter. When the light came on and I stayed behind it, I started stringing strikes. Please let me take this lesson when I leave Saturday!


Quote:
The way the Nationals is set up, to win this thing is not luck. You'll need a very, very, good team of players with the skill and the mental capacity to figure it out. How many really good teams are there in today's game? Few and far between.
Absolutely. Adam Barta's team is leading because they worked together for a long time, realized the shot was difficult, and pounded away at a spot until it became playable.

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

As someone here already implied, the differences between playing a house pattern and playing a true sport pattern reveal themselves in all their bitter irony.

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest the 3 biggest factors in a bowler's delivery that are allowed by THS and "forbidden" by sport patterns are these inconsistencies:
1. ball speed,
2. rev rate,
3. targeting
in no particular order.

Variations in these factors are hidden by the house shot but revealed by sport pattern.

One person mentioned the guy who hit his target at Nationals regularly and still had problems. I wonder if we measured his ball speed and his rev rate on those shots, would they have been consistent within a moderate range??
I don't know, but I suspect not.

I think consistency in these 3 factors is usually what makes winning PBA players so much better than house shot experts who average 220 and up.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:54 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlest View Post
As someone here already implied, the differences between playing a house pattern and playing a true sport pattern reveal themselves in all their bitter irony.

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest the 3 biggest factors in a bowler's delivery that are allowed by THS and "forbidden" by sport patterns are these inconsistencies:
1. ball speed,
2. rev rate,
3. targeting
in no particular order.

Variations in these factors are hidden by the house shot but revealed by sport pattern.

One person mentioned the guy who hit his target at Nationals regularly and still had problems. I wonder if we measured his ball speed and his rev rate on those shots, would they have been consistent within a moderate range??
I don't know, but I suspect not.

I think consistency in these 3 factors is usually what makes winning PBA players so much better than house shot experts who average 220 and up.
Definitely agree. I think people also have a very one-sided view of targeting. You need to consider both target at the arrows and the breakpoint. Also doesn't hurt to also consider laydown spot too. It doesn't matter if you hit 2nd arrow all night but are all over the place at the break.

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlest View Post
I think consistency in these 3 factors is usually what makes winning PBA players so much better than house shot experts who average 220 and up.

The complete post was dead on, but I highlight that last part because of what Mark Baker said a long time ago:

Anybody can be just as good as Chris Barnes on a single shot. However, Chris Barnes is that good on 95% of his shots, and the average person might be that good on 40%. That's the difference in players.

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:40 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

At the highest level of executing a human movement there is a sensation of total awareness. It transcends mechanical repetition. It is simply called "feel". Only the greatest athletes in the world are capable of experiencing that heightened sense of awareness for any length of time.

The more difficult the challenge, the more outside influences will interfere with the ability to execute the movement at 100 percent efficiency. The oil pattern at the Nationals is certainly not the most confidence inspiring obstacle an average bowler will ever face. The overall scoring pace coming out of there now is a true reflection of how mentally (not) prepared bowlers are when participating in that event.
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:33 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

The last Sport league I bowled in was tough, but it helped me more than anything. On THS and variations thereof, I could use my spin release to get the ball down lane. Not a true spinner, but some top on the ball. On Sport it slid all the way and it never recovered. So I got with a coach, he he TRAINED me to stay behind and up the back of the ball. We brought my ball track way up, and I was able to average 175 for the league. I started with a 145 average in the league and in 15 weeks I raised it 30 pins with the new release. My THS was 205 that year, so I was still 30 pins shy, but I learned a lot. That was my problem and in the 1980's when I tore up short oil with urethane and a semi-spinner release, I was averaging 220+ in tournaments. When I bowled a regional in 1989, I averaged 175 for the 10 game qualifier. Low to cash was 205-210. So I found out that for me my biggest problem has always been my release. On anything but THS, spin will kill you! SPIN WILL KILL YOU!
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:31 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

A lot of people will always complain when their scores are down due to a shot they can not hit on. For the original poster, tell the bowler on the sport shot to bowl with plastic if they are having issues hitting their spot regularly. But I am going to guess said bowler falls under the group of bowlers that feel "plastic" is for "spare" ball only. I know I have issues with hitting well on sport shots and tend to bowl better with weak to plastic covers, think it maybe due to me knowing margin of error is lower mentally? who knows? All I know using plastic can throw others games off (mainly the group that feel plastic=spare) and can really get them off their games at times and for me I get more constant scores and less min/max scores. As one poster stated could just be a mental part of game.

Re: Just what are bowlers actually expecting when...
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:28 AM
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Re: Just what are bowlers actually expecting when...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlingmojo View Post
they go to bowl on sports/challenge oil patterns the first time?

Over on another forum a bowler went to the nationals, he asked every question he could and for every piece of advice he could get. He ran around and tried to play every different pattern he could, worried about what balls to take, surfaces, layouts etc.

He's averaging 200+ on the THS and after seeing the scores at the nationals figures even if he has a bad series he still going to be up in the top.

After he gets back and he's kind disgusted he says he had to hit the exact same spot each time and the exact same line each time.

and quote "that is just too much to deal with."

So being accurate and consistent is too much to deal with?
It is for poor ole complaining nancy there - he's just not as smart or as good as he thinks he is! Remember everyone lied to him as well!

Last edited by imagonman; 06-15-2017 at 01:52 PM.

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:41 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

IMHO, Bowlers are confused when they watch the PBA tournaments on tv. They listen to announcers and watch the grafts of where the oil concentrations are, they see different shades of blue and relate what they see to what they perceive is a THS, with "a little more oil", and think that they can score on sport/comp patterns with the techniques that are successful on a THS.

The reality of bowling on competition patterns is downright shocking to many bowlers averaging 200+ when they can barely bust 160. As Jack Nicholson said "You can't handle the truth".

Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: Just what are bowlers expecting when...

I came back home from Nationals on Thursday, and then had a little event on Friday and Saturday that I'll share elsewhere. But I wanted to post here, first.

Anyone who believes they can just show up and defeat a Nationals pattern by themselves are either supremely talented or they are not in touch with reality.

During team, we worked together to break down the shot, and we were rewarded. One of our teams shot 2900. The other shot 3069. The ONLY reason that was possible is because we all agreed to grind, grind, grind at the shot until we got it right, and both teams threw pretty decent second and third games.

The exact opposite happened in Doubles/Singles for me. I got stuck on a pair with two Classified bowlers who threw shiny stuff up 15 - that worked well - NOT. One guy was a lefty, one guy was a righty cranker who was convinced he could play well inside of people, and one guy threw 20-12 the entire time. The strategy called for playing D/S between 5-9 and it would get - in the exact quotes of a known industry insider - stupid easy.

It never happened. Because I was out there all alone, the shot never broke down for me, and I paid the price. I barely made back what I put out for brackets, and never got a sniff of a high game.

On the pair beside me, the other six guys on my team broke the lanes down properly and made bundles in brackets and position in the tournament.

So......about that team play idea....
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