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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #51  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
Storm/Roto Grip, EBI, Motiv has masters degrees earned in engineering, and math, and they all agree on what influences ball motion....

but for some reason, they dont understand the laws of physics like you do? Do you have a degree in any related field? I honestly dont know.
Now, wait a second, you're about to indulge in the manufacturing process of a bowling ball.

And your background is?

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #52  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:45 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomaHawk View Post
Now, wait a second, you're about to indulge in the manufacturing process of a bowling ball.

And your background is?
Computer Science with an Art background.

And since I know fairly minimum about the process, I am asking for help from people a lot smarter than I to help me along the way, so I can learn.

That's the difference. Good try on the trolling though!
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #53  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:47 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

There has been a lot of dialogue in this thread, whether a person agrees or disagrees.

Not trying to get off track here, would someone please explain what trolling is? Does it have something to do with asking a legitimate question or reply?


Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #54  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

"the bowling industry doesn't want you to know"

I don't why but reading this thread is like reading about the "Gasoline Pill" conspiracy.

"Inventor develops a pill that changes water into gasoline, oil companies try to discredit the inventor and suppress the technology."

You just got to substitute Static weights (or GBS) for the gas pill and bowling companies for oil."

If the bowling industry is trying to suppress static weight information? just what are they gaining by doing it?

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #55  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:45 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlingmojo View Post
"the bowling industry doesn't want you to know"

I don't why but reading this thread is like reading about the "Gasoline Pill" conspiracy.

"Inventor develops a pill that changes water into gasoline, oil companies try to discredit the inventor and suppress the technology."

You just got to substitute Static weights (or GBS) for the gas pill and bowling companies for oil."

If the bowling industry is trying to suppress static weight information? just what are they gaining by doing it?
Less information to add to the drill sheets
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #56  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:54 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

I will leave my end at this….. I don't think one ounce of static weight in any given location of the bowling ball is a measurable difference for human bowlers using equipment starting in the era of dynamic cores. (Non pancake cores)

The last time I used a trial version of blueprint software and compared 1oz positive and 1oz negative side weight on a bowling ball keeping pin to pap and everything else the same it gave me an almost 1 board difference in reaction. The two lines plotted on top of each other until the last few feet.

It's software, and just a simulation. I have a feeling it's probably accurate enough. Was there a technical difference, undoubtedly. Is it usable, or make a difference worth considering…. No.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #57  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:12 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
I will leave my end at this….. I don't think one ounce of static weight in any given location of the bowling ball is a measurable difference for human bowlers using equipment starting in the era of dynamic cores. (Non pancake cores)

The last time I used a trial version of blueprint software and compared 1oz positive and 1oz negative side weight on a bowling ball keeping pin to pap and everything else the same it gave me an almost 1 board difference in reaction. The two lines plotted on top of each other until the last few feet.

It's software, and just a simulation. I have a feeling it's probably accurate enough. Was there a technical difference, undoubtedly. Is it usable, or make a difference worth considering…. No.
And, the person rolling the ball has to know and have the ability to make the adjustment.

Case in point, I drilled a ball for a fellow who is an ok bowler. Walked past the lanes he was practicing on, he kept leaving the 10 pin. On my way back, I watched him leave two more 10 pins. His final score, 189. After that game was over, I went up to him and asked if I could make a suggestion. He was all ears. All I said was, move two boards to the right. His next game, 279.

It would be great if there was a magic pill, but..............

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #58  
Old 08-14-2017, 06:42 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
I will leave my end at this….. I don't think one ounce of static weight in any given location of the bowling ball is a measurable difference for human bowlers using equipment starting in the era of dynamic cores. (Non pancake cores)

The last time I used a trial version of blueprint software and compared 1oz positive and 1oz negative side weight on a bowling ball keeping pin to pap and everything else the same it gave me an almost 1 board difference in reaction. The two lines plotted on top of each other until the last few feet.

It's software, and just a simulation. I have a feeling it's probably accurate enough. Was there a technical difference, undoubtedly. Is it usable, or make a difference worth considering…. No.
1 board all in the last few feet is useful for carry and continuation.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #59  
Old 08-14-2017, 06:47 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
When I actually did a video myself, explaining the difference between positive and negative side, everyone blasted me because they said I didn't throw the ball the same or whatever. No matter what I do or say, people are going to get their panties in a bunch about it and shoot me down. But, I can certainly try again, I guess..? Another thing to remember is lane conditions play a big part. If there's not much friction, you won't see any difference in statics, as both balls will go relatively straight. When the lanes dry out and you have to swing the ball, that's when you'll really see the difference between the two.
True. Grease the lanes up enough and you will see zero difference between 500 grit surface and 4000 grit surface.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #60  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:30 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevZiLLa View Post
1 board all in the last few feet is useful for carry and continuation.

Had a bowler ask me to do that test on another site and when given the results said it was proof and wanted every advantage possible.

Most can not see or adjust off one board at 40 plus feet away.(or at 20 feet for that matter ) That one board you think gives you carry is also just as likely to be something that doesn't carry or worst leave a split.

If a two ounce swing generates less then a board or even a board difference it is equally as useful or detrimental as the shot maker.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #61  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:06 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

It won't make you lose the pocket, but carry is something different. Less deflection, less flat 10's. Did you model the ball path through the pins? Still, empirical evidence is the real deal. Modeling has severe limitations.

Before we had modeling and widespread knowledge of differentials and RGs and more, all we had was our eyes and our powers of observation. I personally observed what higher side weight did for me and used it. Now I know more and have experimented with balance holes. I can see how they affect shape of motion and it is huge. Still, I am smart enough to layout and leave room for that hole where I want it and still leave statics where I want. Admittedly, the balance hole is the larger force.

Remember when the USBC was trying to outlaw all balance holes? That is why companies said there is no effect to statics. Why, because banning xholes severely limited production outcomes that would be acceptable to bowlers and pro shops. It hurt the bottom line to tighten acceptable standards.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #62  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:27 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevZiLLa View Post
It won't make you lose the pocket, but carry is something different. Less deflection, less flat 10's. Did you model the ball path through the pins? Still, empirical evidence is the real deal. Modeling has severe limitations.

Before we had modeling and widespread knowledge of differentials and RGs and more, all we had was our eyes and our powers of observation. I personally observed what higher side weight did for me and used it. Now I know more and have experimented with balance holes. I can see how they affect shape of motion and it is huge. Still, I am smart enough to layout and leave room for that hole where I want it and still leave statics where I want. Admittedly, the balance hole is the larger force.

Remember when the USBC was trying to outlaw all balance holes? That is why companies said there is no effect to statics. Why, because banning xholes severely limited production outcomes that would be acceptable to bowlers and pro shops. It hurt the bottom line to tighten acceptable standards.
Eliminating balance holes would have opened a very large can of worms. ABC / USBC wisely backed down.

Side weight or finger weight as you mentioned, is something that can be manipulated if some forethought has been given to the layout. We make the hole bigger or deeper, we take out some of the side or finger weight. But, as you also mention, we are changing the shape of the core. Win, win!

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #63  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:07 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Anyone care to guess the biggest impact on a drilled ball when using blueprint software?

I used the software to try different layouts and different weight hole locations to see the impact on lane, and on the core numbers.

No matter what weight hole I added to the ball, no matter the size or the location it did not make the ball hook more. No matter how much it increased the diff, the int diff, or lowered the rg. The end result (with flare increasing weight holes) was shorter skid phase and earlier hook. Not more hook, or covering more boards/total boards. That I did not expect.

If I changed the pin to pap from 3" to 4" to 5" or 6" the results were still not what you'd expect in terms of big changes.

Surface however did. Changing surface had much larger impacts then any other adjustments mentioned.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #64  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:12 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Surface agreed!

Try it again on different shots and on different lines on the same shot. Use house shots too. I did a symm at 70 x 3 1/2 x 30 (70 to the bottom of the thumb and a bit left since there was no MB). Without a hole it was great along the oil line at lower speed and still got length in the THS puddle, but reacted fast and hard to the hole. Move the line out right of the oil line and it still went kinda long, but couldn't finish the trip to the hole.

Added a P3ish hole a bit left of the VAL and below the midline and tried that same line. It was a bit earlier and a lot smoother and it looked like it would stop, but kept on coming right through the pins. I think it was a Lane#1 Pro V.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #65  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:21 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

It's nice to be able to discuss this with you with an open mind and without trying to discredit each other. You modeled and got what you got and I believe that. I tried it on the lanes in a few areas of the pattern and got what I did.

I can't remember what happened along the oil line with the balance hole. The difference when I targeted farther right was STRIKING, so I remember that well. No pun needed. I also saw that the flare lines had much more separation between them
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #66  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:40 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

It shows all of those things flare, axis migration and stuff I have no idea what it meant. Would have beneficial to use it more and have a manual to better understand some of the features.

Where I trust the software or a thorwbot option is the ability to take the bowler out of play. As a bowler at the foul line we are limited on what we are able to see on a bowling ball going down the lane vs standing back at the end of the approach watching the ball go down the lane.

Most of what I tested was on a THS because that is what most will face 90% or more of the time. No doubt that THS have the ability to blend out so much because of the defined friction.

I think BP is pretty close but take it with a grain of salt because it is software that processes information based off of values given to it by people.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #67  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:29 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Here's a real world demonstration about weight holes placed in different locations.

Did the static weights change too? Probably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJSmtr75Ts

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #68  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:59 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
Never said putting a weight hole 3 3/8" from the PAP always increased flare. Re-read what is written.

Only that I'd be more interested in a weight 3 3/8"s from a bowlers PAP then the CG.
Fyi, the CG is weight and/or where the center of the mass of the ball is located.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #69  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:02 AM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
Storm/Roto Grip, EBI, Motiv has masters degrees earned in engineering, and math, and they all agree on what influences ball motion....

but for some reason, they dont understand the laws of physics like you do? Do you have a degree in any related field? I honestly dont know.
Didn't I already blow their engineering knowledge out the window when I introduced the Diamond core..? How quickly we forget.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #70  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:10 AM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
Didn't I already blow their engineering knowledge out the window when I introduced the Diamond core..? How quickly we forget.
And there we go.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #71  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:43 AM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
Fyi, the CG is weight and/or where the center of the mass of the ball is located.
Its supposed to be "weight hole" not weight

Read post #26 middle paragraph
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #72  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:20 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
Had a bowler ask me to do that test on another site and when given the results said it was proof and wanted every advantage possible.

Most can not see or adjust off one board at 40 plus feet away.(or at 20 feet for that matter ) That one board you think gives you carry is also just as likely to be something that doesn't carry or worst leave a split.

If a two ounce swing generates less then a board or even a board difference it is equally as useful or detrimental as the shot maker.
From a pro shops perspective, it does't matter what the reality is, whether or not 1 board makes a difference, it's whether the bowler is willing to pay for such an advantage, even if it is only 1 board, correct..?

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #73  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:31 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
And there we go.
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble with my FIGJAM, but just stating FACTS and/or providing correct data for analysis. MeNoRevs, are you feeling butt hurt about my accomplishment..? Well suck it up, because I really did blow all the ball engineers out of the ocean with my Diamond Core design.

Because they're all butt hurt, not giving me the credit I deserve, nor the credit the industry deserves acknowledging my advancements in bowling ball design and/or ball drilling, the industry is suffering, with me having to throw it in everyone's face, which I'd rather not have to do.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #74  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:40 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
Its supposed to be "weight hole" not weight

Read post #26 middle paragraph
You actually wrote "weight", instead of "weight hole" 3 3/8" from ones PAP. Here's the quote in that same #26 post..."Only that I'd be more interested in a weight 3 3/8"s from a bowlers PAP then the CG". This is why I misunderstood and wrote what I wrote.

But again, the CG represents MASS and the position of MASS is what influences ball motion. the farther one has to swing the ball, the more noticeable static weights and/or the ending CG will become.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #75  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:48 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble with my FIGJAM, but just stating FACTS and/or providing correct data for analysis. MeNoRevs, are you feeling butt hurt about my accomplishment..? Well suck it up, because I really did blow all the ball engineers out of the ocean with my Diamond Core design.

Because they're all butt hurt, not giving me the credit I deserve, nor the credit the industry deserves acknowledging my advancements in bowling ball design and/or ball drilling, the industry is suffering, with me having to throw it in everyone's face, which I'd rather not have to do.
So bowling is on the decline because no one gives YOU enough credit?

Now I've heard everything...

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #76  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:21 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
You actually wrote "weight", instead of "weight hole" 3 3/8" from ones PAP. Here's the quote in that same #26 post..."Only that I'd be more interested in a weight 3 3/8"s from a bowlers PAP then the CG". This is why I misunderstood and wrote what I wrote.

But again, the CG represents MASS and the position of MASS is what influences ball motion. the farther one has to swing the ball, the more noticeable static weights and/or the ending CG will become.
Post #31 is the typo, post #26 is where I originally mentioned me personally more interested in the affects of a weight hole 3 3/8"s from the bowlers PAP then static weight/CG. I was bringing that point back up in post #31.

In reference to your success with the diamond core I think it is hard for anyone to deny that is a successful core design. Two very popular Columbia 300 balls used it. The most popular shape still seems to be the light bulb core which is continually re-used by almost every manufacture.

If a customer wants positive side weight in the ball I have no issues with them having it. If they believe it is a benefit who am I to argue with their money and their decision. If we gain almost 1 board going from 1oz positive side weight to 1oz negative side weight then it stands to reason the difference between 1oz positive side weight and 1/2side weight or 0 oz positive side weight will be even less.

Not sure you realize it Buzzsaw or not but through your post and claims you are no different then Mo in saying two different things depending on what it is you are trying to prove. Maybe it is a mistake like mine forgetting to use "weight hole" instead of weight or maybe it's part of being in the industry so long and a salesman first. There are likely some truths in what you say but it has to be sorted through.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #77  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:42 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Sorry to burst everyone's bubble with my FIGJAM, but just stating FACTS and/or providing correct data for analysis. MeNoRevs, are you feeling butt hurt about my accomplishment..? Well suck it up, because I really did blow all the ball engineers out of the ocean with my Diamond Core design.

Because they're all butt hurt, not giving me the credit I deserve, nor the credit the industry deserves acknowledging my advancements in bowling ball design and/or ball drilling, the industry is suffering, with me having to throw it in everyone's face, which I'd rather not have to do.
There is the Ritchie we all know.

You are the one, when the engineers got together, to showed you that the formula you used to to calculate the 20% of your core, that there was a mistake done, by more than 1 person, you blamed it on a bug in the CAD software. When it was done on another cad program, you said there is a bug in that system too. I have the whole conversation.

No one really takes you serious, and no one will take you serious. Your cores have never won a PBA title, NOT 1. Even when you paid more for the winner, and yet no one really wanted to throw your stuff.

Your cores are nothing special. When you were trying to sell your core, why didnt one of the big boys throw money at you to get that core? I think most of us already know what you are going to say.

You cannot get anyone to pour for you, what is the reason? Seismic had no problem at all going from Tx to St. Louis. I even contacted the guys at Visionary and they said they have no problem pouring balls.

You have not brought one oz. of data to the field. You have no CATS data at all showing why static weights matter, you just rely on your Lavar Ball, narcissistic, ego static personality to try to stay relevant. Your staffers found out quickly how avg your balls were and jumped off ship. How long was Kevin on for?

Most of us are just waiting for you to entirely leave the bowling community, and you already have 1 foot out the door from your own doing.

Good luck in your musical en devours. You will somehow blame the music scene for your undoing also.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Ouch, that one might leave a mark...

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:49 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Ouch, that one might leave a mark...
I didnt want to do it, but he asked if I was butt hurt. I really didnt need to say anything, most (lets be fair, not all) of us think what I say.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:32 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Interesting that every manufacturer in the business goes away from high intermediate diff cores and then Lane1 comes out with the largest int. diff. of anyone. Probably not a good plan especially at $300+

Maybe you do know something they don't……
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:35 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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I didnt want to do it, but he asked if I was butt hurt. I really didnt need to say anything, most (lets be fair, not all) of us think what I say.
I agree with you.

I'm sure Ebonite, Storm, Motiv, Seismic, Visionary, Lord Field, ABS, etc. are shaking in their ball molds over that diamond core.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #82  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:53 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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It's nice to be able to discuss this with you with an open mind and without trying to discredit each other.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:27 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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It's all your fault
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #84  
Old 08-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

I've had customers who would only roll Lane #1 and did pretty well with them. One fellow must have drilled at least four Pink Panthers, did very well with them.

We know, there have been a lot of duds from every single manufacture. Honestly, it's a miracle that EBI is still in business because with all their product lines, very few if any, hit the top of the sales charts. But, they have the resource to eat their mistakes. Lane #1? Mo?

It's easy to sell a ball that everyone is throwing and scoring with. Chances are, those sales were not the end result of the static weights.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #85  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:01 PM
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So bowling is on the decline because no one gives YOU enough credit?

Now I've heard everything...
Yes, because they don't involve my knowledge in any decision making, hence they're using second rate information to make decisions, get it..?

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 12:27 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
There is the Ritchie we all know.

You are the one, when the engineers got together, to showed you that the formula you used to to calculate the 20% of your core, that there was a mistake done, by more than 1 person, you blamed it on a bug in the CAD software. When it was done on another cad program, you said there is a bug in that system too. I have the whole conversation.

No one really takes you serious, and no one will take you serious. Your cores have never won a PBA title, NOT 1. Even when you paid more for the winner, and yet no one really wanted to throw your stuff.

Your cores are nothing special. When you were trying to sell your core, why didnt one of the big boys throw money at you to get that core? I think most of us already know what you are going to say.

You cannot get anyone to pour for you, what is the reason? Seismic had no problem at all going from Tx to St. Louis. I even contacted the guys at Visionary and they said they have no problem pouring balls.

You have not brought one oz. of data to the field. You have no CATS data at all showing why static weights matter, you just rely on your Lavar Ball, narcissistic, ego static personality to try to stay relevant. Your staffers found out quickly how avg your balls were and jumped off ship. How long was Kevin on for?

Most of us are just waiting for you to entirely leave the bowling community, and you already have 1 foot out the door from your own doing.

Good luck in your musical en devours. You will somehow blame the music scene for your undoing also.
Mostly all fake news. Yes, the CAD data is incorrect, due to the formula not being correct. I've had two independent studies done calculating the moment of inertia and both came out with the same results. Not sure who actually came up with the formula used in the CAD programs, but I'm willing to be they took a shortcut, rather than go through all the tedious work of coming up with the correct formula, because there isn't a PUBLISHED formula for a double cone. Why is that..? Hmmm...

Lane #1 was only PBA registered a year or two, not that that matters, but titles aren't won only based on how good a ball is, it's based on how much companies are willing to pay the top pro's to use the ball. That's how much you know about this industry.

My cores are/were head and shoulders above the competition. My longtime com padre Brian Purcel from Ebonite told me Ebonite specifically tested using the Buzzsaw as comparison, trying to get the same numbers, because all they had was a light bulb core at that time. The big companies obviously didn't have the technical knowledge at the time to understand the power and control the diamond core presented, nor had the vision to see where it could take the brand down the road.

Visionary has not been answering their phones, just did get in touch with them.

There's plenty of data out there showing how much effect static weights play into things. Brunswick's very own video trying to disprove static weights, BACKFIRED on them. Based on that video, core angle doesn't matter either..!! LOL

Stop spewing your butt hurt BS, that's another reason this industry has no leader and is currently a DISASTER..!! You are the CANCER infested in this industry.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 12:28 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
Interesting that every manufacturer in the business goes away from high intermediate diff cores and then Lane1 comes out with the largest int. diff. of anyone. Probably not a good plan especially at $300+

Maybe you do know something they don't……
Yes, I know how to sell balls at $300, they don't..!!

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #88  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:08 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Mostly all fake news. Yes, the CAD data is incorrect, due to the formula not being correct. I've had two independent studies done calculating the moment of inertia and both came out with the same results. Not sure who actually came up with the formula used in the CAD programs, but I'm willing to be they took a shortcut, rather than go through all the tedious work of coming up with the correct formula, because there isn't a PUBLISHED formula for a double cone. Why is that..? Hmmm...

Lane #1 was only PBA registered a year or two, not that that matters, but titles aren't won only based on how good a ball is, it's based on how much companies are willing to pay the top pro's to use the ball. That's how much you know about this industry.

My cores are/were head and shoulders above the competition. My longtime com padre Brian Purcel from Ebonite told me Ebonite specifically tested using the Buzzsaw as comparison, trying to get the same numbers, because all they had was a light bulb core at that time. The big companies obviously didn't have the technical knowledge at the time to understand the power and control the diamond core presented, nor had the vision to see where it could take the brand down the road.

Visionary has not been answering their phones, just did get in touch with them.

There's plenty of data out there showing how much effect static weights play into things. Brunswick's very own video trying to disprove static weights, BACKFIRED on them. Based on that video, core angle doesn't matter either..!! LOL

Stop spewing your butt hurt BS, that's another reason this industry has no leader and is currently a DISASTER..!! You are the CANCER infested in this industry.
Wow, a pro shop guy can be a CANCER in this industry. Not bad for someone as little as I am, just a lonely pro shop guy can be a cancer.

Just know, and you should already know, when you go in the pro shop threads on FB, that you are a joke. People laugh at you. I will say this, you are mentally tougher than I, because it would bother me. I guess thats one thing you have over me. That and I am a cancer and your not.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:12 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Yes, I know how to sell balls at $300, they don't..!!
That's funny. I bought your $300 ball and it's a giant turd.

Not that I paid $300 for it, only $100(Yes, brand new and drilled).

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:14 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Yes, because they don't involve my knowledge in any decision making, hence they're using second rate information to make decisions, get it..?
And they seem to be doing pretty well with that "second rate information", whereas you don't seem to be having a lot of success.

I will give you credit for the Pink Panther though. Great ball, but stupid marketing. If Storm had come out with that ball they would still be making them.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #91  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:06 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Wow, a pro shop guy can be a CANCER in this industry. Not bad for someone as little as I am, just a lonely pro shop guy can be a cancer.

Just know, and you should already know, when you go in the pro shop threads on FB, that you are a joke. People laugh at you. I will say this, you are mentally tougher than I, because it would bother me. I guess thats one thing you have over me. That and I am a cancer and your not.
And the rest of the FB pro shops that laugh at me are the other the cancer. Yes, I'm tougher, because I KNOW the TRUTH and have MORE KNOWLEDGE about bowling than you and the rest of the FB cancer clowns. Do you really think these ball companies know more than I do..? As a matter of fact, I can out bowl any owner of another company and probably 95% of their staffers. LOL The only thing they know is how to mold a bowling ball, pay staffers to use it and sell it for cheap..!! Give me a break...

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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That's funny. I bought your $300 ball and it's a giant turd.

Not that I paid $300 for it, only $100(Yes, brand new and drilled).

I will give you credit for the Pink Panther though. Great ball, but stupid marketing. If Storm had come out with that ball they would still be making them.
I highly doubt you paid $100 brand new, unless it was stolen..? And, if it didn't roll very good, it was obviously drilled improperly and/or not according to the drill sheet.

Correct, if one of the big companies were selling my products and/or designs, they would be making a killing..!!

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #93  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:42 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Bowling started pricing itself out of the entertainment market when Ebonite started telling pro shop operators they should be charging $25.00 to polish a ball, there should be an extra charge for exotic drilling, and even there should be an extra charge for putting holes in the ball. In their next breath they told us we had to create "value" in their product, comparing it to Starbucks coffee. I can go on and on. Quantum?

Yes, the industry is in a mess, a money grabbing mess. Some people can afford it, many can't.

So, if we were to believe the Holy Grail of ball dynamics, we are told, we (pro shops) are to charge even more for a drilled bowling ball. Ok, we sell it, but what if the bowler is not that good? The ball does not perform as expected. Do we tell the bowler: "Well, the ball is ok, you just can't bowl".

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:42 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
I highly doubt you paid $100 brand new, unless it was stolen..? And, if it didn't roll very good, it was obviously drilled improperly and/or not according to the drill sheet.

Correct, if one of the big companies were selling my products and/or designs, they would be making a killing..!!
Drilled according to the sheet and I'm not the only person who bought one at that price. There were three sold, drilled.

It rolled like crap, drilled by the sheet. Just a stupid design that didn't work.

As for the "big companies...making a killing", I have doubts. They sell whatever makes them money. If your products and/or designs were worth it to them, they would be selling them.

If you had not made a bright pink ball, you would probably have actually made money on it. At least if they were all the quality of that first batch. The obvious shortcuts in materials for some of the later ones resulted in typical results when shortcuts are taken.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #95  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:44 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Yes, with every fiber I know they know more than you.

And you absolutely know nothing about a bowling ball going down the lane. Once a ball lands on the lane, it lands on an RG, and continues to follow that RG path as it goes down the lane (axis migration). If the lane was long enough, it would eventually go to the lowest RG, the pin. It will never go to the MB.

Then why is it I had to design new drillings for Brunswicks Phantom ball to work..? LOL. If they were so smart, they would've designed the Diamond Core, correct..?

The ball will always migrate to the Preferred Spin Axis and/or mb, isn't that what the Determinator tells you..?

Believe what you want, but most of what the big companies tell you is FAKE NEWS. Too bad you don't already know that, but as you alluded to, I guess that's why I CAN take the heat and you CAN'T.

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #96  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:55 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

A major company (columbia) did use the diamond core on two releases that were successful. They ran the normal production series and have not been used again. I'm guessing Columbia moved passed it.

Yes you did sell some bowling balls at $300 but as also posted many came available rather quickly for far far less. Creating high intermediate diffs causes the ball to fight itself and become very drilling/bowling sensitive. Most manufacturers stay under 0.020 these days.

Mo went on and on about only using asymmetric cores and it was all that was needed for today's oils and conditions…… until it didn't work and Morich was failing that he then started releasing symmetric cores. Sadly not even new designs but Brunswick cores.
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:02 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Drilled according to the sheet and I'm not the only person who bought one at that price. There were three sold, drilled.

It rolled like crap, drilled by the sheet. Just a stupid design that didn't work.

As for the "big companies...making a killing", I have doubts. They sell whatever makes them money. If your products and/or designs were worth it to them, they would be selling them.

If you had not made a bright pink ball, you would probably have actually made money on it. At least if they were all the quality of that first batch. The obvious shortcuts in materials for some of the later ones resulted in typical results when shortcuts are taken.
I'm sorry, there were not three sold at that price, unless they were stolen. The design works as advertised when drilled correctly.

No, the big companies do not sell whatever makes them money. I was doing upwards of $2 mil in sales for 4 years straight in the mid 2000's, with ZERO help. Now imagine if my products were branded under Brunswick or Storm, that would translate into $10 mil sales. Now I started out in 1992, with a patent on my diamond core design.

If Brunswick would've took it over from the beginning, marketing these balls based off my patent, Storm wouldn't even be around today and Lane #1 would be a $20+ mil company today. But, instead of doing that, they just took all my ideas and threw me under the bus.

And now look what we have today in the industry..? Basically nothing, but a bunch of smart ass kids who think they know everything, but have done nothing themselves..!! LOL Yet, they are so quick to criticize someone who's actually done something and have done it for a very long time and still doing it..!!

No respect, so I guess you are doomed, because there's nothing coming along that shows otherwise, which is why I'm just as happy leaving this industry behind, moving on to music and entertainment. Karma, it'll get the best of the bowling industry one way or another. Just look at what's happening, the industry is turning their backs on me and the industry is in the shitter. Now if the bowling industry was booming, I would have to agree with your assessment of me, but it's NOT..!!

So, is bowling's downhill spiral Coincidence, or Karma..?

Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #98  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:06 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
Then why is it I had to design new drillings for Brunswicks Phantom ball to work..? LOL. If they were so smart, they would've designed the Diamond Core, correct..?

The ball will always migrate to the Preferred Spin Axis and/or mb, isn't that what the Determinator tells you..?

Believe what you want, but most of what the big companies tell you is FAKE NEWS. Too bad you don't already know that, but as you alluded to, I guess that's why I CAN take the heat and you CAN'T.

You keep mentioning the diamond core as the holy Grail. The only person that thinks this way is you. It's nothing special. I even heard you stole the idea from someone. I have to confirm my resources before I post who from.

Why did you stay a small to now, a failing ball company?

And if you knew anything about ball motion, then you would know the way the detrminator works is that it is always supplying energy to the ball, therefore stabilizing the high rg (mb for you).

I think RevZiLLa should go ahead and lock this thread and talk to you about how you have deeply embarrassed yourself. Good luck with the petitions you are fighting, someone just sent me the link online.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:12 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

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Originally Posted by ignitebowling View Post
A major company (columbia) did use the diamond core on two releases that were successful. They ran the normal production series and have not been used again. I'm guessing Columbia moved passed it.

Yes you did sell some bowling balls at $300 but as also posted many came available rather quickly for far far less. Creating high intermediate diffs causes the ball to fight itself and become very drilling/bowling sensitive. Most manufacturers stay under 0.020 these days.

Mo went on and on about only using asymmetric cores and it was all that was needed for today's oils and conditions…… until it didn't work and Morich was failing that he then started releasing symmetric cores. Sadly not even new designs but Brunswick cores.
Columbia never used Diamond Core technology, but they did come close to patent infringement. Maybe that's why they stopped..? Hmmm

Ball prices did not come down quickly, as we're still selling these at $300+ retail. maybe pro shops don't know how to sell and/or advertise..? That makes much more sense, seeing as though they won't push one product over another, just letting the customer decide for themselves most of the time.

I don't understand your ignorance of our line of cores. I guess you've been brainswashed by the butt hurt naysayers, into thinking Lane #1 uses the same Diamond Core design in all our balls, LOL. Lane #1 probably has the most diverse line of cores of any company. Here's a peek for you...
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?
  #100  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:40 PM
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Re: Phoenix ball balancing?

Revs, just because meno does not agree or respect the ideas or opinion of another does not mean a thread should be locked. Modify the thread if need be. If the thread had been locked, we would have never had a chance to see the different core variations Buzz has designed or been involved in.
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