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Pin Placement?
  #1  
Old 12-19-2011, 11:16 AM
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Pin Placement?

Can someone help explain how pin placement affects bowling ball's hook?

I kinda understand... but could use some more info.



ALSO....

On my new Storm Gravity Shift, the pin placement is around 0.5" above the Ring finger hole....

If I have my Lane #1 Solid Uranium drilled with the same layout as my Gravity shift... would it react the same?

The Uranium's pin placement is maybe 1" up and 1.75 - 2.25" from the ring finger hole....



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Re: Pin Placement?
  #2  
Old 12-19-2011, 11:33 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

GENERALLY speaking, Pin up results in more length and a quicker response to friction. But there's a lot more to it than that.

Two different balls drilled the same will result in different reactions because of core and coverstock characteristics.

Re: Pin Placement?
  #3  
Old 12-19-2011, 12:06 PM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien789 View Post
Can someone help explain how pin placement affects bowling ball's hook?

I kinda understand... but could use some more info.



ALSO....

On my new Storm Gravity Shift, the pin placement is around 0.5" above the Ring finger hole....

If I have my Lane #1 Solid Uranium drilled with the same layout as my Gravity shift... would it react the same?

The Uranium's pin placement is maybe 1" up and 1.75 - 2.25" from the ring finger hole....
Pin placement relative to the fingers means nothing. Pin placement relative to your PAP is important. Think about it: with all of the different bowling styles out there, how can pin over ring finger mean the same thing to everyone?

This will help you understand how layouts effect the roll of the ball:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/ima.../DualAngle.pdf

Re: Pin Placement?
  #4  
Old 12-19-2011, 04:10 PM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Since PAP's vary from individual to individual and ball to ball, then, someone purchasing or trading for a used ball here, or anywhere else because the spans are the same as the purchaser's either for LH or RH (without having the
used ball's PAP measured and ball redrilled) are counter productive or what? I am LH and was recently given an old Visionary Blue Sparke Gryphon, drilled right handed with a weight hole. Before I was going to have it drilled I decided to throw it a couple of games. Well by golly, the right handed drill
(pin a half inch right of my middle finger) works better then my JET, CSM and Damage. When our house went to synthetics my average dropped 15 pins,
now finally, I am making my move back to normalcy, have gotten 10 pins back in average using this righthanded drilled ball. Haven't had the PAP measured on it, but out of curiosity I guess I should just to seen how it compares to my other three LH drilled balls. Good info guys!

Re: Pin Placement?
  #5  
Old 12-19-2011, 07:09 PM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-road pearl View Post
Since PAP's vary from individual to individual and ball to ball, then, someone purchasing or trading for a used ball here, or anywhere else because the spans are the same as the purchaser's either for LH or RH (without having the
used ball's PAP measured and ball redrilled) are counter productive or what? I am LH and was recently given an old Visionary Blue Sparke Gryphon, drilled right handed with a weight hole. Before I was going to have it drilled I decided to throw it a couple of games. Well by golly, the right handed drill
(pin a half inch right of my middle finger) works better then my JET, CSM and Damage. When our house went to synthetics my average dropped 15 pins,
now finally, I am making my move back to normalcy, have gotten 10 pins back in average using this righthanded drilled ball. Haven't had the PAP measured on it, but out of curiosity I guess I should just to seen how it compares to my other three LH drilled balls. Good info guys!
If a used ball has a drilling on it that works with my PAP, I'm good to go. The PAP of the previous owner is irrelevant. What matters is how the drilling angle, VAL angle, and Pin to PAP distance match up to my style as measured from my PAP.
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Re: Pin Placement?
  #6  
Old 12-20-2011, 12:15 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

So let me understand this...

PAP aside and GENERALLY speaking, pin up(high) gives more length/skid and pin down(below fingers) gets an earlier arching hook?

Does pin hieght from generic PAP represent the overall distance from the PAP. Or does a high pin just usually means your Pin is further away from PAP hence the Length/ longer skid

Like, could you have a 5-7 inch distance pin from PAP and have it below fingers or is that just not sensible? (no idea what type of reaction this causes, just curious)

Re: Pin Placement?
  #7  
Old 12-20-2011, 04:42 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

I will just say this, you may notice little to no difference in the way the layout affects the way your ball rolls. The first 7-8 balls I drilled I expected it to be a noticeable affect....needless to say I drill them for what reaction I want, but I am really starting to wonder if it matter much for my style....NOTE: I am not saying it doesn't affect the roll, I am saying it is a minor difference for me and does not seem to matter much....just take it with a grain of salt.

BTW I am not a driller so when I say "I" drill them I mean my pro shop operator.....

Re: Pin Placement?
  #8  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:49 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Escolar View Post
So let me understand this...

PAP aside and GENERALLY speaking, pin up(high) gives more length/skid and pin down(below fingers) gets an earlier arching hook?

Does pin hieght from generic PAP represent the overall distance from the PAP. Or does a high pin just usually means your Pin is further away from PAP hence the Length/ longer skid

Like, could you have a 5-7 inch distance pin from PAP and have it below fingers or is that just not sensible? (no idea what type of reaction this causes, just curious)
Pin up balls will GENERALLY read friction quicker (more angular) while pin down balls tend to give you a slower response to friction (more arc). Length is determined by the distance of the pin to spin line (the line between the Pin and the PSA) from the PAP, the amount of flare and the surface preparation. The closer the Pin to spin line is to the PAP, the sooner it will roll. In drilled symmetrical balls WITHOUT balance holes, the PSA will be in, or very near the thumb. If there is a BALANCE HOLE, it (the PSA) will be somewhere between the hole and the thumb hole, depending on the size and depth of the hole.

The distance the pin is from your PAP determines how much the ball flares, which also determines how much friction the ball will see, which has an effect on how soon the ball will start to read the pattern.

There's a lot of info there. Take your time to absorb it. Sorry if it's a little too detailed.
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Last edited by kellytehuna; 12-20-2011 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Cleared up the a little confusion in the PSA and balance holes part of the post

Re: Pin Placement?
  #9  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:04 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Good job, Kelly. Thanks!
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Re: Pin Placement?
  #10  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:50 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellytehuna View Post
Pin up balls will GENERALLY read friction quicker (more angular) while pin down balls tend to give you a slower response to friction (more arc). Length is determined by the distance of the pin to spin line (the line between the Pin and the PSA) from the PAP, the amount of flare and the surface preparation. The closer the Pin to spin line is to the PAP, the sooner it will roll. In drilled symmetrical balls WITHOUT balance holes, the PSA will be in, or very near the thumb. If there is a PSA, it will be somewhere between the hole and the thumb hole, depending on the size and depth of the hole.

The distance the pin is from your PAP determines how much the ball flares, which also determines how much friction the ball will see, which has an effect on how soon the ball will start to read the pattern.

There's a lot of info there. Take your time to absorb it. Sorry if it's a little too detailed.
Thanks Kelly, I WILL ABOSRB This at least once a week till i understand it. haha.
I find myself coming back to rereading threads and articles on line weeks later and going "OOH I GET IT".

So just another dummy questions , even though the answer is probably up there.
For Length - The Longer Distance of Pin to PAP by default usually puts it above the fingers anyways? or is the height of "Pin-up" has to do with the angle as well?

sorry. haha.

Re: Pin Placement?
  #11  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Just as a warning, you have to have a pretty consistent release and aim in order to be able to tell the difference in "real world" application. You don't have to be PBA good, but you really have to be darn good.

While every little bit helps, there are a lot of more important factors that most people would do well to master before getting into drilling techniques. For instance, how to properly play the lane based on your line and your teammates and opponents is far more valuable IMO.

Re: Pin Placement?
  #12  
Old 12-20-2011, 03:52 PM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Escolar View Post
Thanks Kelly, I WILL ABOSRB This at least once a week till i understand it. haha.
I find myself coming back to rereading threads and articles on line weeks later and going "OOH I GET IT".

So just another dummy questions , even though the answer is probably up there.
For Length - The Longer Distance of Pin to PAP by default usually puts it above the fingers anyways? or is the height of "Pin-up" has to do with the angle as well?

sorry. haha.
Very generally speaking, the height of the pin actually REDUCES length. HOWEVER, it tends to lengthen Pin to PAP distances as well, which could add length, depending on whether the ball is sym or asym and how long the Pin to PAP distance really is.
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Re: Pin Placement?
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:42 PM
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Re: Pin Placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by handmedn View Post
Pin next to ring now! More finger weight = more backend. 1 oz finger or 1/2 oz finger?
static weights don't matter.....make it legal. Use CG location to create an option for a target hole(balance hole) or use the location to force a desired balance hole.
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