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Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .
  #1  
Old 04-01-2005, 12:19 PM
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Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .

This info is from a session with Mo Pinel and Del Warren. They do advocate pitch changes to adjust ball roll.

They start with what some here have called the "claw" grip. That is, a bowler's standard fit will include more forward pitches and a shorter span than has been the norm for many over the last few years. When the thumb is fully inserted and the fingers are laid across the holes, the edge of the hole/insert close to the thumb will be between the first and second crease/joint. They feel that a closed hand can remain more relaxed and still hold the ball without grabbing.

Once the "standard" fit is determined, adjustments can be made as follows (for right handed bowlers, lefties need to reverse the lateral adjustments) :

* To Increase Rev Rate - add 1/8 forward to both fingers and 1/8 reverse to thumb

* To Decrease Rev Rate - add 1/8 reverse to both fingers and 1/8 forward to thumb

* To Increase Axis Rotation and Tilt - add 1/8 left lateral to all three holes

* To Decrease Axis Rotation and Tilt - add 1/8 right lateral to all three holes

* To Increase Roll for low track players - Add 3/8 reverse to middle finger and increase middle finger span by 1/16. Add 3/8 forward to ring finger and shorten ring finger span by 1/16.

* To Increase Axis Rotation and Tilt for very high track players - Add 3/8 forward to middle finger and shorten span 1/16. Add 3/8 reverse to ring finger and lengthen span 1/16.

* Two or more adjustments may be combined for more dramatic results.
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:34 PM
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Good info Duke. Fufu and I were talking about this very thing last week. \

Thanks!!
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpisto
Good info Duke. Fufu and I were talking about this very thing last week. \

Thanks!!
My driller and I used to use pitches to change my axis rotation.
In the early 70s, I carried 6 balls. Different TW, and static weights, with different lateral pitches in the fingers...We thought it was pretty revolutionary. Guess it was for the time.
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:41 PM
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Fufu was telling me to try about an 1/8th or 1/4 reverse on my next drill to see if I like it. Increasing revs was a wanted result.
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Old 04-02-2005, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpisto
Fufu was telling me to try about an 1/8th or 1/4 reverse on my next drill to see if I like it. Increasing revs was a wanted result.
What are your finger pitches now?

My pitches were:
Ring: 1/2 palm, 1/8 reverse
Middle: 1/4 away, 0 reverse
Thumb: 1/16 palm, 0 reverse
since 1996.

I currently use:
Ring: 1/2 palm, 3/16 reverse
Middle: 1/4 away, 1/8 reverse
Thumb: 0 lateral, 3/8 reverse (using Magic Carpet)

with increased revs...and amuch cleaner release.

My fingers are losing flexibility. I'm 58 and shoot about 40-50 games a week. No leagues. Practice. pot games, and tournaments.
I may have to rework my spans, and pitches.
I just started working with a coach about a week ago.
First thing he noted: Your games is: "Jowdyesque", which I took as a great compliment. My swing is about 90 percent unmuscled. Really helps with revs. and carry.

I just bought a Weider adjustable forearm developer, to strengthen my wrists and forearm.
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Old 04-03-2005, 05:37 PM
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I believe all my hole are at O. I don't think there is any pitch at all but I will have to check.
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Old 04-05-2005, 04:44 PM
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I'm had 1/8 rev pitch in my thumb.. but it is coming out of the ball way to early.. I'm going to try and remove some of the pitch to correct this and see what happens.. all my fingure pitches are neutrall { 0 } pitch


My thumb holes are snug.. so I was told this could be one of the problems I'm having with the ball comen out early.. is my pitch..

WHAT ELSE COULD CAUSE THIS ?? anybody.???
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Old 04-05-2005, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRoller
I'm had 1/8 rev pitch in my thumb.. but it is coming out of the ball way to early.. I'm going to try and remove some of the pitch to correct this and see what happens.. all my fingure pitches are neutrall { 0 } pitch


My thumb holes are snug.. so I was told this could be one of the problems I'm having with the ball comen out early.. is my pitch..

WHAT ELSE COULD CAUSE THIS ?? anybody.???
Maybe, Early Timing?
Tight thumb should keep you in the thumb longer.

You have no lateral pitches in your fingers?
That seems strange...but if the holes feel OK and you have no hand problems, I guess it's OK.
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:18 PM
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LOL.. no pitches in the fingers.. I'm at 0 on them.. I was thinking of going 1/8 forward in my fingers.. have to see what the thumb dose for me once..

Timing don't seem off.. I roll that the same as I do the other balls, BUT, for some reason the Slay/R and the Nemesis seem to want to come off my hand early.. I'll check and play arouund with them some to find out.. I'll get my driller to watch me and see if he can figure out if my timing might be the issue...

THANKS RNR
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2005, 04:43 PM
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Does finger pitch change how you end up gripping the ball? How much finger pitch would I need to make my Track Animal hook a lot more because I have ran into heavy or flooded the lanes the last month and ball has been hooking so little I have had to come in off the corner.

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Old 07-29-2005, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan14
Does finger pitch change how you end up gripping the ball? How much finger pitch would I need to make my Track Animal hook a lot more because I have ran into heavy or flooded the lanes the last month and ball has been hooking so little I have had to come in off the corner.
Sorry, but pitch isn't going to help that. Lower the ball in your stance and roll it slower.

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Old 07-29-2005, 06:44 PM
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I thought finger pitch was to increase revs?

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Old 07-29-2005, 08:12 PM
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Finger pitch CAN increase revs, but it isn't going to make a 200 rpm bowler a 400 rpm bowler. I would say normally a gain of revs, but nothing drastic.

The better benefit would be the cleaner release most see. It allows you repeat shots easier.

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Old 07-29-2005, 11:36 PM
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I am a high rev player and the ball hooks great most days, but it seemed for that one day the lanes seemed to be flooded? About how many revs can finger pitching add? When you add pitch to your fingers does it change the shape of the finger and thumb holes? How much forward on the fingers whould I put to increase my revs the most?

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Old 07-29-2005, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan14
I am a high rev player and the ball hooks great most days, but it seemed for that one day the lanes seemed to be flooded? About how many revs can finger pitching add? When you add pitch to your fingers does it change the shape of the finger and thumb holes? How much forward on the fingers whould I put to increase my revs the most?
There is no set pitch to help you. The idea is get the most "pad" of your finger on the insert. So, head to your favorite proshop and have them checked out! Just remember, if you change the finger pitch the thumb pitch will need to be compensated also.

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan14
I am a high rev player and the ball hooks great most days, but it seemed for that one day the lanes seemed to be flooded? About how many revs can finger pitching add? When you add pitch to your fingers does it change the shape of the finger and thumb holes? How much forward on the fingers whould I put to increase my revs the most?
Make sure you adjust your span. Span should be shortened a bit, when you increase finger pitch (under), or you will dame the first joint, and can cause nerve damage to the finger(s).
I'm dealing with that problem right now...It's not fun.
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Old 07-30-2005, 12:42 AM
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I was talking finger pitch away NOT under

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:49 AM
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To start with it would be 1/8 in each finger and 1/8 reverse in the thumb right? The same if I happened to want more?

Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:03 AM
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Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .

Good day,
I need some help and advice. I am a right handed 2 finger bolwer. (No thumb being used) I need to know, what i can do to change my roll or tracking on my ball. If you are looking at my ball, with the 2 finger holes at 12 o clock and the thumb hole at 6 o clock. My track runs basically over or through the middle of the finger holes and then too the left of the thumb hole. Its as if i am throwing an extremely high full roller but for a left handed bowler and i am actually a right handed bowler. Any suggestions that i should possibly try with my finger pitches etc. I am currently bowling with approx 1/2 to 5/8 reverse pitch on my fingerss and the laterals are approx 1/8 left and 3/8 right. All info will be welcome

Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:08 AM
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Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .

This is called performance fitting. Hopefully I will learn more about this at the Advanced IBPSIA course if I get to go.
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Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:50 AM
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Re: Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagged3103 View Post
Good day,
I need some help and advice. I am a right handed 2 finger bolwer. (No thumb being used) I need to know, what i can do to change my roll or tracking on my ball. If you are looking at my ball, with the 2 finger holes at 12 o clock and the thumb hole at 6 o clock. My track runs basically over or through the middle of the finger holes and then too the left of the thumb hole. Its as if i am throwing an extremely high full roller but for a left handed bowler and i am actually a right handed bowler. Any suggestions that i should possibly try with my finger pitches etc. I am currently bowling with approx 1/2 to 5/8 reverse pitch on my fingerss and the laterals are approx 1/8 left and 3/8 right. All info will be welcome
You are a full roller, and should drill your equipment as such.

On your pitches, are you sure that is what they are, because those laterals do not make sense, unless you have some ultrastretched T grip. I'd recommend a full refit using Mo Pinel's system at bowlingchat.net's wiki.


Those pitch changes are not an all inclusive guide, and the amount of pitch change is going to vary from bowler to bowler, based on what their existing pitches are. With most people falling into the "B" category for Center Line Transposition, you will find they are forward in the middle, and reverse in the ring.

You also have to see how the ball is coming off the bowlers hand. If they are not getting out of it fast enough, you aren't going to add forward pitch to the thumb.
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