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Thoughts on this weight hole...???
  #1  
Old 11-23-2008, 11:46 PM
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Thoughts on this weight hole...???

http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/l...atid=4&id=2990

http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/l...atid=4&id=2991

I've been helping this lady in our scratch league. We were discussing her equipment and she showed me this Kinetic. She stated that she didn't care for the reaction of the ball. Looking at the weight hole, I wanted to check the pitch on it.

It has:

7/8 LEFT lateral
9/16 REV

I weighed it and there is 0 finger/thumb, 1/4 oz side and top/bottom weight is "normal" too. I don't understand this hole. Unless there is a ton of top weight, why would you drill a balance hole like this? It appears to be somewhat of a flare reducing hole location, which still doesn't make sense to me as the bowler doesn't have a very high rev rate.

Help me understand....
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
  #2  
Old 11-24-2008, 01:50 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

The theory to have weight holes pitched is to remove the neccessary weight and trying to take out the least amount of core nesssary, trying to keep the cores intergrity..

I think the more important question is....

Why do you believe its a flare reducing hole?

Why do you believe this that something like this is only used for a ton of top weight?

Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
  #3  
Old 11-24-2008, 03:43 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

I think he said he doesn't understand that bal hole. Neither do I. I once had a driller try to add side weight with a pitched bal hole, but I never understood it.

MeNoRevs, would you please teach us a bit more about this?
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
  #4  
Old 11-24-2008, 05:01 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevZiLLa View Post
I think he said he doesn't understand that bal hole. Neither do I. I once had a driller try to add side weight with a pitched bal hole, but I never understood it.

MeNoRevs, would you please teach us a bit more about this?
The only reason you pitch weight holes is to leave the core in tact, since the core is the 2nd most important factor in ball reaction. The more you keep the weight block in tact, the more "true" the ball is going to do by theory. Usually you will see weight holes pitched to the other side, to the right.

Why did this ball driller do this? Probably by mistake. There is no valid reason to pitch it the other way. If he plugged the weight hole and made it 0,0 or pitched it the other way, would it make a differnce, probably no.

I just dont understand why FUFU would say it would be a flare reducing hole since it has been shown that weight holes in the thumb quadrant causes wider flare. While it may not be on the side of the ball, I am not sure how far it is past the VAL to be a flare increasing or decreasing hole. If anything, it may be right on her VAL.

I would of liked to see where the MB is on the ball, and what exactly is she not liking to her ball compared to the other equipment she has. Also what size drill bit did they use on the weight hole and how far down? Also what is her PAP?

Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
  #5  
Old 11-24-2008, 12:27 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
The only reason you pitch weight holes is to leave the core in tact, since the core is the 2nd most important factor in ball reaction. The more you keep the weight block in tact, the more "true" the ball is going to do by theory. Usually you will see weight holes pitched to the other side, to the right.
I said that on ballreviews, that drilling the hole like this could only be to NOT contact the core yet remove the necessary weight to get the desired static weights.

I wanted to measure her exact PAP, but never got around to it as the shop got alittle busy. But, I'm gonna ballpark for the moment and say about 4 3/4 > 3/4^. The MB appears to be just about on the vertical axis line.

I've pitched balance holes before to miss the core somewhat. Like, my Anger is 1/2" away from center of grip. But, I've never seen or considered a 7/8" and 9/16" hole like this one. Just trying to understand..............

As for my thoughts on the flare reducing hole, I have some info I printed out a few years back. I believe it was something I read from Mo Pinel. It shows balance holes on the axis to keep the same ball motion prior to drilling the balance hole. Holes inside the PAP, between the grip line and pap, reduce flare. Perhaps that info is outdated, perhaps this hole doesn't fall into this category.

IIRC, holes down on the val increase flare correct?
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:19 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

As I remember it, holes in the thumb quadrant at or beyond the VAL INCREASE flare, holes ON the PAP maintain stability and holes in the finger quadrant ABOVE the PAP on or within the VAL DECREASE flare.

I also remember a while back when you still worked at this house something about weight holes pitched north and east would also INCREASE flare regardless of location.

If I'm wrong, PLEASE inform me so I don't do something stupid in the future!
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
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Old 11-25-2008, 12:02 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

go to morich site. gradient line balance is great read. as for pitching the hole, mo talks about that in double thumb technique. menorevs is on the money....
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:12 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

Interesting read. I don't think that is what this balance hole is. The double thumb says to pitch the hole 3/4 right.

As for the rest of that info, I guess all that would make a difference for WRW or Tommy Jones. But it means very little to a 200 avg league hack. A typical 200 average bowler doesn't throw the ball accurately enough for that to make any difference.
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:54 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this weight hole...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by fufu View Post
I said that on ballreviews, that drilling the hole like this could only be to NOT contact the core yet remove the necessary weight to get the desired static weights.

I wanted to measure her exact PAP, but never got around to it as the shop got alittle busy. But, I'm gonna ballpark for the moment and say about 4 3/4 > 3/4^. The MB appears to be just about on the vertical axis line.

I've pitched balance holes before to miss the core somewhat. Like, my Anger is 1/2" away from center of grip. But, I've never seen or considered a 7/8" and 9/16" hole like this one. Just trying to understand..............

As for my thoughts on the flare reducing hole, I have some info I printed out a few years back. I believe it was something I read from Mo Pinel. It shows balance holes on the axis to keep the same ball motion prior to drilling the balance hole. Holes inside the PAP, between the grip line and pap, reduce flare. Perhaps that info is outdated, perhaps this hole doesn't fall into this category.

IIRC, holes down on the val increase flare correct?
weight holes down the VAL do not nessisarly increase flare, but has shown to show aggressive seperation. Weight holes past the VAL are known as flare increasing and holes before are shown as flare reducing.

Remember when doing this, we must keep the ball within USBC regulatoins. If we have a layout where the CG is high on the ball, its going to be almost impossible to drill a hole in the thumb quadrant. Also its been said that you will have to go 2 1/2 inches past the VAL for the flare increasing hole to work, and the hole has to be at least 1". When doing that, you run risk of having the ball flare over holes. That is why Mo came up with the Double thumb technique.

The Mo Gradient Line shows why these holes put in certain places increase flare, or different ball motion. If was not known before this how much weight holes increase/decrease differental in the ball.
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